PLEX does not allow you to create ISK out of nothing, and reducing the numbers wouldn't matter GÇö it's a relative measurement anyway and reducing the number of people just makes the absolutes smaller while the relative numbers stay the same.

GǪand since they've gone back on the inflation problem, it doesn't matter anyway. Now, it's just a pointless nerf.

Can't you just tax the top 1% or 10% more like the rest of the real world does?

Daily tax for anyone in a Supercap.

Null ratting is for the blue collar folks just trying to make a living you bourgeoisie pricks.

But we DESPERATELY NEED __something__ like ESS. We can talk about how it can be done right, but not IF it should be done at all.

And thatGÇÿs the fun part of it: on the small scale, Goonswarm Federation or any other large alliance ISNGÇÿT BETTER COORDINATED than our small scale pvp gangs. ThatGÇÿs the reason why we can gank carriers and marauders deep within your empires. Sov 0.0 ratters are acting very isolated, and thatGÇÿs why they are easy prey for any roaming gang. And thatGÇÿs why they HAVE to dock up. There is no alternative for them, cause alliances donGÇÿt have an answer to the kind of threat that we small scale pvp roamers are posing.

As I stated in an earlier post, alliances would have to adapt to the fact that suddenly there are some things at risk by gangs that you were able to completely ignore in the past.

As I see it, most of the opposition to the ESS in this thread is by large alliance nullsec dwellers who see the game from a completely different angle. Everybodies point of view in this thread is highly subjective, and determined by our selfish interest. Therefore it is wrong to accuse CCP SoniClover of not understanding the game. HeGÇÿs just coming from a different perspective, one that most people here donGÇÿt like.

I don't give a rats ass about the isk it drops. I want the locals to form up and fight.

In the current environment, if I roll into the area with 3 thorax, a sabre, and 2 inties, the locals have no reason what so ever to undock or leave their POS. The only conflict we can instigate when raiding their territory is catching a ratter, and that's why small gang PvP is leaving nullsec.

1.) If they deploy an ESS in system, they know they will have to defend it. If you are a lone ratter, I doubt you'd deploy it. And those that do, I'd suspect would keep combat ships close at hand so they can defend it.

2.) I didn't say I wanted a 6v1 gank. There could be 20 pilots in system, and quite often everyone will get safe. Furthermore, numbers aren't everything in this game. The gang I listed would be counterable by 2-3 BS's and BC's. That's one of the reasons I'd role light, is so an opponent wouldn't need 12 people to fight me.

3.) Nullsec is for more than Sov warfare and big ships, and you're a troll of you continue to state otherwise.

There are different types of threats in the world:

A 10-man terrorist cell doesn't pose a threat to the sovereignty of a country, but it can cause a ruckus if they hijack some planes and crash them into a few skyscrapers.

Why should your 5000 man group NOT have to worry about small groups roaming their territory? You think shooting some structures and planting a TCU should give you a safety zone? Get real!

Edit:
Imagine there's two adjacent regions of nullsec that are similar in every meaningful way. Except one of these regions bans ESS, the other has ratters using them in every system. Which region do you choose to terrorize? This is why nullsec alliances will ban their use.

Interceptors are hardly invincible. And for the record, I have been and still am VERY opposed to interceptors enjoying interdiction nullification. I vocally proclaimed this was a bad move, but c'est la vie.

I've attacked many a Sov group with small inty gangs, sometimes ganking, sometimes getting good fights, sometimes winning, and sometimes losing.

Please spend more than 10 seconds looking at my KB before making a judgement:

We were a 6 man frigate/cruiser gang, and a 40 man BNI fleet came into the area to pick a fight with Usurper. So we swapped to bombers and attempted to lay out a trap, which their FC smartly avoided (mostly).

An alt corp of one of our members was wardecced by Shadow Squadron. We asked them politely to drop the wardec and leave the corp alone, but they insisted following through with their attack. As such, Agony joined the war as an ally, smashed Shadow Squadron's POS, after which they dropped the war.

I primarily partake in solo and small gang warfare, quite often outnumbered and facing superior forces. Nothing on my killboard will bring shame to me, so attack it all you want.

I make my isk through many avenues: I belt rat & run plexes in nullsec, I'm involved in t2 production in Highsec, PI in nullsec, and if I need lots of isk quickly I mission run or incursion in highsec. The truth is, I don't care about the isk-tag getting dropped. I care about motivating the locals to do more than dock up for 5 minutes.

Remove all npc bountys from null and replace it with tags that can be picked up (by everyone) on a new sov. structure every hour.

What is your point? That you are butthurt about the 5% nerf to ratting income? I don't care if you cloak up when I enter system. Good for you. And I don't support nerfing nullsec income directly (at least, not without highsec income nerfs too).

The point of this device, is that you can deploy it and risk a small portion of your income with the hope you get even more isk at the end of your ratting session. The risk is that someone might roam into system and harvest that risked income before you cash out. Your not forced to deploy it, your not forced to risk your income and/or your ships to defend it. But if balanced, it is something the more entrepreneurial members of EvE will gladly utilize.

If ESS's were worth installing in the first place, and worth defending secondly, there might be an entirely different conversation to be had. People that earn their isk by ratting will not get traction having this project shelved or reexamined if the arguments against its deployment just heighten a perception that nullbear = risk adverse. CCP SoniClover made it clear that we will have to fight for what we want to have, but we simply haven't been given something exactly worth fighting for in the first place.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your statement is, when you won't use the isk generating module because it could cost you a few minutes of your time and risks a button pushing stabbed inty being caught and destroyed? Especially since you DON'T EVEN HAVE TO USE IT.

Certainly there are more pressing things for you to gripe about, because your stance is unjustifiably absurd!

I don't remember problems as prevalent as this five years ago when I joined. I have a theory that CCP have scaled back server performance or failed to upgrade over the years on account of the fact that they clear are tight up financially. I suspect that other games are renting space on tranquility like Dust which whilst not huge are nevertheless leaching resources from the array to the detriment of eve.

This is the mentality that keeps people docked for days because there is an AFK cloaker in the system.

As a ratter you have just as many options available to you as those who seek to prey upon you. You are not welded into a particular ship, nor are you unable to change the fit of that ship to match the situation... and you certainly aren't cut off from the rest of your corp mates (and their hopefully well organized intel channels) as far as communications goes.

Prey mentality is self fulfilling.

And no, you lose nothing by not using this module. The reward reduction is going to come anyway and is an unrelated issue. So if you don't use the module your pay out is unchanged from what it would be anyway.

Limiting troop mobility, automatically means a more modest role for big power blocks. They won't disappear, and there will be room for new ones to form and grow if the existing ones are more power projection constraint.

I don't remember problems as prevalent as this five years ago when I joined. I have a theory that CCP have scaled back server performance or failed to upgrade over the years on account of the fact that they clear are tight up financially. I suspect that other games are renting space on tranquility like Dust which whilst not huge are nevertheless leaching resources from the array to the detriment of eve.

You do realize that everyone does pay for their account, right? Those plexing their account is actually paying more, because the people who buy the PLEXes pay more per month than the guy buying the PLEX would if he'd just paid for his account directly.

Remove local chat.

I don't think the reduction of bounty payouts in null of 5% is enough to warrant the risk an ESS brings. Maybe you should consider a reduction similar to NPC taxes of 11%. Concords gotta eat right? :)

I really don't understand all the whinning, nullbears have gotten pretty much what they asked for since 2008 when their representatives took over the CSM. If nullsec is a huge mess, enjoy what you begged for - pretty please give me X, Y and Z with a cherry on top CCP.

IMHO EVE began to get out of CCP's hands a long time ago when they nerfed supers because they were being used as haulers and not for what the devs had envisioned. Let the players play the game the way they want and not have to follow a set path thought out by, dare I write it, selfish nullbears and, oh the horror, implemented on their behalf by a dozen or so devs who were/are/always will be nullbears.

It's been a little bit since our last feedback from CCP. How goes the discussion about iterations and changes to these deployables? (granted, you might be tied up on other discussions given HED-GP).

So your alliance is 1) nerfing your income and 2) mandating that you shoot structures that play no part in SOV?

And your mad at CCP.

They are not obliged to ask for permission to add something to their game. That being said, the announcement isnGÇÿt very specific, feature-wise. So there still seems to be plenty of room for changes to the way it operates.

Not releasing the module seems to be no option, though.

CCP is also providing a mechanism to ignore the nerf. If your alliance does not allow you to ignore the nerf, then your alliance is actively nerfing your income.

So you will shoot them even though you don't have to, but complain about more structure grinds. Got it.

Why would you collect tags unless your 'stealing'(lol) them? If you are 'stealing' why would you use a ratting ship?

So, after 84 pages in this discussion, you still didnGÇÿt realize, that the ratters DONGÇÿT have to collect any tags? If somebody pushes the SHARE button, then all ratters get an ISK transfer directly to their wallet, proportionally to the bounties they collected since the last share event in the system, while the module was active.



ThatGÇÿs right. But nullsec alliances are only one part of CCP customers, and they have to see the big picture, such as GÇPin which direction do we want to develop this gameGÇ£.

Farms and fields. I hope CCP was somewhat prepared for the resistance by nullbears once it became more than an empty slogan :-P

Then by all means don't use it. But don't whine and ***** about it as well. If the module isn't used at all, CCP will have to revisit it in spring. And if you're concerned about your income, then either use it or do one more site a week.

If you see potential in the idea behind it, suggest some improvements. Nuff said.

No they haven't.

Normally you make good posts tippia.. but this is just bullshit garbage.

The ESS is essentially fertilizer.. it has the potential to increase your crop yield while also attracting bugs.

It absolutely qualifies as a Farms & Fields device, and no bullshit analogy you pull out of your ass will change that. What you may honestly debate is the utility of the device, and whether the risks outweigh the rewards.

There are two aspects to owning territory:
1.) Defending it from outsiders.
2.) Defending it from within.

Currently, the Sov mechanics are all about defending space from Outside territorial disputes. That's fine and good. Unfortunately, once you own the space, everything you invest into it (i.e. its infrastructure like POS's, IHUB upgrades, POCOs, and stations) are all large gang targets. There is nothing in the current design that is small gang oriented, and this is what should change. I totally understand why you don't want to have vulnerable infrastructure. We all know you hate the concept of defending space, and prefer to just get safe and simply waiting for the raiders to move on, but that is a terrible void for game conflict and content.

Siphons are sort-of small gang targets, but unfortunately the are located within POS weapon range, which eliminates any & all small gang conflict. The ESS is the first truly small gang farms and fields device that CCP is implementing, and if you don't think you can handle the risks deploying it entails, then don't. But give everyone the choice to make that decision for themselves!

You do realize that 75% of the complaints in the thread are people whining about the 5% nerf to nullsec income?

Are you going to kick corps who put them up?

EDIT: nm he answered that in a later post

Are you, like, completely unaware that LP exists to be converted into ISK and is, in fact, non-transferable otherwise? I'm not exactly sure where you got these ideas about how nullsec exists, but it clearly wasn't by living in nullsec.

To be honest, YOU (and others) seem not to understand, that CCP is trying to CHANGE the way how nullsec works. And actually they are even trying to improve it, for the welfare of the game.

And I support that.

Loving the deployables overall and the newest addition in particular

The ESS will rock some nullbear socks for sure (look at them squirming... oh noes, we might not be 100% safe ratting in null anymore).
For me it looks like the first small step towards enforcing to hold only the space you are willing/capable to defend.
We need more things like this, really.

D.

As for those two statements an ESS will give increased payout/rat over time it is this time that is reset, ie if a 800k rat gives 200k payout just after deployment it will give(not sure but think it was in the ballpark of 5% more) after 2 hours which would come to 210k. so after being destroyed and redeployed it would be back down to 200k, but you could still retrieve the isk
earnt during those two hours as long as noone used the share/take all optione before destroying it

OMG... you'll have some risk to get the full reward... How will you ever cope????

People... it's only a 5% reduction in bounties to generally reduce the easy isk fire hose on null that CCP wanted to find a solution to, if you don't like it, DON'T use it!

In the event your personas big ego is inconvenienced by one of these, use an alt to share the profits of it, IT will pay EVERYONE involved no matter where they are, or logged off.

Yes the pvp risk has been raised and that is what null should be about, also no one is going to put their ship at risk for 10m-20m worth of bounties. Closing statements: The goondrone tears in this thread are delicious, understand that there a lot more players with no voice on this board that supports CCP's idea.